An early black and white version of my Grease Monkey's Paradise image was one of the nominees in the Black and White Spider Awards.
It looks like I'm able to post pictures once again, so here's the one you missed from my last post:
I'll be making a loop up to Santa Fe, New Mexico tomorrow and then will be headed into Texas as I continue my travels along Route 66.
Don't forget that my new Photoshop CS4: Up to Speed book is now in-stock on my on-line store.
Hi Ben,
Although I love the image, I find it a bit disheartening to find it in the fine art-amateur section. There is no way I could classify you as that considering you make your livelihood lecturing about photoshop and photography, writing about photoshop and photography, teaching photography, and selling your photography. Please leave the amateur section to the “Joe the plumber’s” who only indulge in their passion in free time.
Patrick,
At the time I submitted the image, I had not sold a single photographic print to anyone.
Their rules state that if you make less than 50% of my income from your photography, then you’re an amateur. I make less than 5% of my income from my photography, so I think that places me squarely in their amateur category.
Like it or not, I was simply following their rules.
-Ben
Ben,
Not to get into any argument, but I also find their rules disheartening. I would think your teaching, your napp seminars and your books would count for something. I would also think although the rules stated one thing, you had the free choice to decide what division you wanted to enter.
By the way, I attended your last Toronto Napp seminar and enjoyed it immensely.
-Patrick
guys… if it was some sort of a Photoshop skills award, then I think I should be in the pro category, but when it comes to Photography… I’ve never been hired to take a photograph and at the time I had never sold a photograph. I had used 80% stock photography in my books up until about two years ago and I paid zero for the use of all stock photos in previous books, so did not receive any additional income from using my own photography. Sure, I have over a decade of Photoshop teaching experience and that makes me a pro at photoshop, but in this contest, pro was indicating if you made $$ from your photography and I still don’t make much from my photos.
Feel free to not enjoy their rules… but when entering a contest you should read and abide by the rules, otherwise you might be disqualified. That’s all I did. If I were to enter the contest today I could still go into the amateur category, but I’d consider entering the pro category since I’m starting to make some $$ off my images.
-Ben
You used your ample, considerable, and well developed “professional” skills on your image. Believe me when I say I do respect them. You used well homed “professional” skills most amateurs would not have available to them with out paying large sums of money.
Where do we draw the line in good consciousness Ben?
Enough of this, I just want to get back to enjoying your images and attending your next seminar when in Toronto.
I’m sorry to add this rhetorical question, but it was brought to my attention by another “professional” photographer. Is it not correct that an amateur would have to pay you, either to attend one of your seminars, to attend one of your teaching workshops, to purchase one of your disks or books to learn the techniques that you used in creating the above wonderful image? How much does that add to your yearly income? Professional photographers know that there is more involved then just pushing the button to be a “professional.” Today photography is a melding of many disciplines, and I would expect you would recognize this. I would also believe all of the above mentioned revenue streams does add up to over 50% of your yearly income. That would make you a professional photographer, or in modern terms a professional image maker. Give the amateurs a chance, respect them, help them, but stay out of their playing field, to do otherwise is simply unfair.
I read rules and abide by them. Shouldn’t everyone? If you don’t like it, ask to have the rules changed.
Teaching is 90%+ of my income… that is teaching photoshop… teaching photography plus the amount I make from my photography brings in a very small fraction of the remaining amount.
I survived for over 10 years teaching while taking very few photographs (using mainly stock for my educational stuff) and my income has not increased since picking up the camera on a regular basis.
Could I be described as Professional image manipulator… no. I’m not available for hire and I do not make much of any money off of images I have manipulated. Teaching other how to manipulate photographs… yes I’m a pro there, but that’s a big difference.
Up until very recently, I was working on other people’s photographs and therefore would not be considered a professional PHOTOGRAPHER… take out that key term and insert educator and I am very much a professional.
Just in case you are unclear with the definition of the term… here is the definition according to the New Oxford American Dictionary: “engaged in a specified activity as one’s main paid occupation rather than as a pastime”. Photography is by no means my main paid occupation… it might bring in 5%+- of my income, so what definition are you going by and where did you learn that meaning of the term?
I read the rules to determine which category to enter and I entered the one that the rules squarely placed me in. I would have entered the professional category if I came anywhere close to meeting the criteria they specified… but if brought down to it, I could have been rejected for not fitting the category. This is also why I’m not part of many professional photographers groups… they have rules for entry and I do not meet them. I might someday soon, but I certainly didn’t meet this contest’s definition of professional… feel free to think of me as one, but the rules dictated that I was not. I was confused as to which category to enter and the rules dictated which one was proper for my situation. It’s that simple guys.
-Ben
HEY. CONGRATS. GR8 WORK. JOB WELL DONE.
HERNAN RODRIGUEZ. 3RD IN FASHION CAT.
Gotta side with Ben here guys. He make a very valid point. An excellent teacher you are by the way Ben. Great seminar in Lauderdale. Very interested in the Iceland trip. Keep us informed. Thanks again 🙂
пиздатые фотки.
First of all sorry for my English, it is not my mother tongue so forgive me my mistakes.
I just came across this thread and find it very interesting.
You said:
“Their rules state that if you make less than 50% of my income from your photography, then you’re an amateur. I make less than 5% of my income from my photography, so I think that places me squarely in their amateur
category.”
“if it was some sort of a Photoshop skills award, then I think I should be in the pro category, but when it comes to Photography… I’ve never
been hired to take a photograph and at the time I had never sold a
photograph”
I wondering i.e. what about a photo editor at a newspaper. According to a couple of photo editors I know, they do not sell any pictures but they make 100% of their income from photography (the salary the newspaper
pays them). Maybe be in the past the earn money with his/hers “clicks” but not anymore. So, should a photo editor take place at a this contest in the Amateur category? I think this should be a bit unfair. According to the rules? Perhaps, but unfair. I do not think he/she should be banned
if they take place in the Pro Category. In any case, one can ask this to the organizers before submit the photos.
Sometime it is not just a matter of “law”, but also a matter of Ethics.
All the best.
You did it again, now in IPA 2009 as a non pro. For one side, congrats, on the other I am sure will not buy one of your books again. I do not think we have to compete on the same category.
Ossie, if you read the IPA 2009 rules it states that being a pro or amateur is determined by the percentage of income you make off your photography and has nothing what so ever to do with your skill set. I make less than 5% of my income from photography.
It sounds like you’d like me to ignore the rules for some reason. If you don’t like the rules, then ask them to change them and I’ll enter my images in whatever category the rules indicate I should be in.
Feel free to purchase books from authors that don’t follow the rules if you’d like, but that wouldn’t be my determining factor when purchasing an educational product.
I can understand your frustration… it simply sounds to me that it would be more constructive to focus it on the people who made the rules instead of the people that are following the rules.
Ben, you could not tell us that you do not live from photography, that your income does not come from photography. You say that it comes from teaching, i say that it comes from photography. As i said in a previous post, you could not only understand that “photography” is just “click”. But it is a matter of interpretation, indeed. You understand the rules in the way you want to. Had i been in your position, i would have take part as a pro and not be banned i am sure.
There is not frustration here. I got an HM as you and i came across yours checking the pictures from the HMs.
Regarding “…Feel free to purchase books from authors that don’t follow the rules if you’d like…” sounds quite childish. I am sure you did not read it twice before post it. Regards.
The rules state “Photographers who earn, or have earned, the majority of their living from photography.”
If I were to stop teaching, then I’d stop making an income. I teach Photoshop. I used to mainly teach a web graphics seminar and before that one for graphic designers, but now many photographers attend my events… but at the end of the day I’m an educator.
For many years I used 100% stock photography in my books and seminars and my income has not changed when I started to use some of my own photography. So, how exactly has the photography part contributed the majority of my living?
education+photoshop=my income
I could stop taking photographs all together and my income would not change. Am I a skilled digital imagining expert, yes… am I a professional photographer, no.
So, you consider you are an amateur photographer. Ok, if that thought makes you happy, fine. Your “rules” are pretty clear.-
By the way: now we know where Ben is.-